GROWING UP, I F*CKING HATED POETRY (interview: Tohm Bakelas)

Let's get right into it., First of all, thanks a lot for doing this. I’ve been following your creative journey for almost 20 years now and you always maintain relevancy.  Also, I know poetry is your main thing now, but you still have a foot in music. 

Thanks for asking me to do this, man! I remember the first time we actually hung out. I was on break from CVS in the Rockaway Mall and I was wandering the cd aisles of FYE when you told me to follow you to your car to listen to your new band Captives. I was probably 17/18 at the time and thought that was so cool. Fake Your Death ended and then you immediately jumped into Captives. I bring this up because that has always stuck with me, your trajectory to continue. So for me, when Four Fingers ended Johnny-Cab Suicide was resurrected with a new and complete lineup. And when that ended, I took some time off from everything before being asked to front Permanent Tension.

 

I appreciate you commenting on that.  I can't stop this crap even if I tried.  I'm kind of afraid to. Can you explain your path from being in bands to poetry? 

The path from bands to poetry was all due to Chris Flynn. He drummed in every band I was in and he introduced me to Kurt Vonnegut and Charles Bukowski and a bunch of other literary giants. The beautiful thing about poetry is once you learn it doesn’t need to rhyme, it’s pretty much fair game! Which is a curse as much as it is a blessing. When I was writing lyrics, rhyming was critical for memory. All my favorite bands had rhyming verses so it only made sense to continue that. In poetry, I rarely rhyme and I rarely memorize anything… Anyway to get back to your first question, when you’re in a band you have other people to work with, worry about, and rely on—either for shows, practices, tours, merch, recording, etc. and sometimes schedules cause conflict and then you’re at a standstill until things free up. When you’re a poet, you only have yourself. So it’s really up to you how far you take it…

What keeps you coming back?

As for what keeps me coming back to music? Well, Permanent Tension never really ended, we just sort of stopped playing. There was no hard feelings, no drama, no animosity. We just stopped playing. And that’s the coolest thing about this upcoming show at Flemington DIY on June 8, 2024. The last time we played together was December 27, 2018. I honestly can’t say we’ve all been in the same room since that night. And I reckon the June show will be the first time we’re all in a room together again. But beyond that, I love music. And even if I’m not actively doing it, I still love it. Tom Schlatter sent me 5 songs earlier this year and I recorded vocals for them. Maybe someday that’ll see the light of day. 

The mall was such a big part or local music back then. Remember when we dropped flyers off at Hot Topic or went to Hot Topic to check out what shows were coming up?  I think Doug from Stillwelle was known to walk around the mall with his Walkman and have people check out his band. 
I definitely remember dropping flyers off at Hot Topic! I used to stick flyers in people’s shopping bags at CVS as well. The Walkman idea is genius, there’s no skipping, you’re not getting out of that situation!

 

I totally understand the rhyming thing for flow and memory and catchiness.  I tend to stick to near rhymes in lyrics...for me I need that box to work within and I need that and it's easy to tell if you're done...when he words are fit to all the music. 

With poetry it’s definitely different. I can show someone a poem I’ve written and they’ll either say “this is cool” or “I don’t get it.” The few times I’ve sent you poems I’m working on you always say the same thing: “ever think about putting this over music?” And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that! Listen: I’m of the mindset that so many of us have been misguided, or ill-informed when it comes to poetry. Growing up I fucking hated poetry. I thought all poetry needed to rhyme and Shakespeare was shoved down my throat and it was all so fucking boring to me. But again, when Chris gave me Bukowski that changed my world. And then Bukowski led me to ancient Chinese poets like Li Po and Du Fu, the latter whom I absolutely worship…

 

That's awesome. I think people give feedback based on what they know.  Like, if I show someone who isn't involved in hardcore/punk one of my bands and they say it sounds like KORN, it doesn't upset me, they are connecting it to what they know, and I actually take it as a compliment and besides the first KORN record rips.  How do you know a poem is complete?

Yo "Blind" for life.. Anyway, how do I know when a poem is complete?  I suppose that's a really diffiucult question to answer.  You see, most of my poems end up in journals across the world. And then I collect them in these things called chapbooks.  A chapbook is basically a small collection of 8-12 poems, sometimes even less. I think of this sort of like a demo.  And then when a larger press comes along and offers me a full-length book, I compile all these chapbooks into the full-length.  And typically, I'll edit and re-edit poems to the best they can be.  So, I guess, to me anyway, a poem is complete when it's in a full-length book. 

 

Kind of like when a song goes to press.  There is no returning from that.  Even if it comes out digital only, you can go back and take it down at any time, but you can't get rid of pressing unless you put them all together and burn them or something. 

Yes, exactly.

 

What's promotion of poetry like compared to being in a band aside from it being a one man show?  How does the pay-off compare?

Honestly man, the pay-off with poetry is that I get to travel anywhere I want, when I want, provided my schedule allows me to. In April 2023 I flew to England to hang with three incredible friends I had been corresponding with since 2019/2020, Mark Anthony Pearce, Danny D. Ford, and Gwil James Thomas. Mark had arranged a few poetry readings in Bristol and we spent the week together. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I think that’s one of the biggest differences between music and poetry, the flexibility of traveling when it works. Think about it man, how many tours have you gone on where you’re fighting about whose turn it is for gas, where you’re going to eat that night, where you’re going to sleep?

 

On the few tours I did when I was younger, there were definitely a lot of fights for whatever reason. I could feel resentment building daily.  It was tough touring with a bunch of emotionally immature people and being at the helm and perhaps the most emotionally immature. haha.  I can see the gratification in only having to rely on you to make the tour a "success." In the little trips I do now, we are all older and make it a point to check out the local cities or towns we are in.  It seems similar to what you are doing.

I think you nailed it, man. When you’re younger and emotionally immature, you exist solely on excited energy and you don’t think about the future because you take a hard stance against responsibility. But now, with aging comes maturity and responsibility. People’s interests change too. I think that’s the coolest part about growing up. We are always evolving. People see things differently and want to experience things differently… And yeah, with poetry you sort of just follow the road to wherever it takes you. And much like music, with poetry you have a set time. The last few readings I’ve done I’ve had 5 - 10 minutes of reading time. That allows a ton of opportunity to explore a city, observe its people, embrace its horrors and beauties. Every time I went on tour with bands, it was: load the van, drive to the venue, unload, play, load the van, find somewhere to sleep, wake up, drive to the next venue, rinse and repeat. Poetry allows me freedom. And lately I’ve been hitting the road with my good friend Scott Laudati. We’ve been to Kentucky three times in less than a year. This last time around we were chasing snakes, turtles, and muskrats and trespassing on people’s property to watch the sunset over the Ohio River. All things that otherwise I never experienced while in bands.

 

That sounds incredible.  Those are the things you remember over doing the reading, I bet. You and I both know, fronting an abrasive band can be cathartic: playing 20 minutes and ending a set dripping in sweat and out of breath.  It's a physical release as much as it is creative.  Do you find that, with readings, you are getting a different kind of release?  Do you still yearn for that physical release?

Christ that’s a really good point, Paul! I definitely still yearn for that physical release and I think that’s why I keep finding myself back to music… I don’t know about you, but I have pre-show rituals. It started in music and I’ve carried it over to poetry. About 10 minutes before my set I pace the venue and stare at people I hate. I purposely avoid anyone who would make me smile or laugh because I feel like if I lose all that anger, then I lose complete control of the situation. I’ve always viewed the audience as the enemy. I’m sure you can probably relate.

I definitely have pre-show rituals.  Playing in front of people has become more difficult for me as I get older.  I'm not the overly-confident kid who can get a room full of people to singalong anymore.  If I'm being honest, I miss that and kinda long for it again.    Now,  I, like you, turn my back to the audience, but I think for different reasons.  It seems I'm trying to make myself smaller.    A lot of my rituals involve getting my voice ready, if I'm singing/screaming, or just trying to get in the right frame of mind.  They aren't as intense as yours, but I think I view the audience differently.  Perhaps I'd benefit from reframing that. haha. Anyway,  who is interviewing who here? hahah How is it for you as you grow and become more self-aware?  Do you find it easier getting in front of people now?  How do you feel when you finish a poetry set as compared to a set with Four Fingers or Permanent Tension?   To expand, how about playing bass for Johnny Cab as opposed to vocals? I know both experiences for me are totally different.  

Listen, for as loud and outgoing as I sometimes appear, I’m totally crippled by low self-esteem and terrible confidence… so yeah, I still feel safer when performing with a band. When you’re the singer, the focal point is typically on you, which is perhaps another reason why I have my back to the audience and only face the band. Too many eyes, too much pressure. When I sang in Four Fingers we had catchy singalongs, so I tried my hardest to shift the focus from the band to the audience. So in a sense, it’s a contradiction from my statement of viewing the audience as the enemy. Four Fingers, early on anyway, required audience participation due to the singalongs. Johnny-Cab Suicide was similar, but Ben Scardo sang which took the eyes off me and allowed me to play bass and do backing vocals when necessary. It was definitely easier not having to worry about engaging the audience. But with Permanent Tension my views became more extreme. It was also a much more technical band. Writing lyrics to Adam Kaniper’s guitar parts was the most difficult thing I’ve ever done with music. I also placed a lot of pressure on myself with Permanent Tension because I grew up listening to all of Adam’s bands and I didn’t want to let him down. So Permanent Tension always maintained the belief “we play for ourselves, and ourselves alone. And if anyone happens to enjoy it, that’s cool too.”

 

But I suppose I should really answer your question about how I feel when I finish poetry sets versus music sets. Four Fingers shows were always wild and fun. We had a very solid fan base who knew every fucking word. I look back fondly at those years because as tumultuous as the band was, it was a great time. Jeff Wasserburger and Ryan Betrix along with Chris and myself accomplished so much when no one thought we would… I think I ended more Four Fingers shows with a smile than I ever did in any other band. Johnny-Cab Suicide was also very fun, and I’d say similar to Four Fingers. It was always great being in a room with Jeff and Chris and Ben. Permanent Tension was, and still is, my favorite project I’ve ever been a part of. We existed for about 2 - 3 years, wrote and recorded an 8 song lp, played a handful of shows, and had such a wonderful time. Again, because I put so much pressure on myself with Permanent Tension, I felt like each show took so much out of me. Earlier you used the word cathartic. I would have to use that word too, for all three bands. But sometimes with poetry, I feel so much anxiety leading up to my reading, during the reading, and after the reading that it’s hard to truly feel like I’ve accomplished something. And that’s the really difficult part of poetry. Rarely does anyone ever say “hey great reading tonight.” Nobody wants to buy books. Nobody reads anymore! I honestly give away more books than I sell. I just want my fucking words read, that’s it. And that’s a caveat I always give to people when I give my books away—take a picture and post it online with my name and the title of the book. Some people follow through and those are the ones who get more free shit.

I know you work in the mental health field.  Can you briefly explain your job?  How does your job influence your writing?  

I’m a social worker in a psychiatric hospital. I’m supposed to discharge patients and arrange aftercare for them. But the large majority of the population I work with can’t be discharged due to their level of functioning, meaning psychiatric state, active violence, etc. I try to focus on making their lives better while in the hospital. Being a social worker has influenced my writing either through direct or indirect contact with patients. People are fascinating man. Go to a public place, find a place to sit, and just observe. What you witness will provide you a lifetime of material.

As someone who works with a helping profession, I know how taxing it can be.  Do you have any tips or pointers on managing your own mental health?  
Remember when we worked for that in-home counseling agency in North Jersey? I think you actually worked for two at the time. They all had names that sounded like youth crew posi hardcore bands. It’s a shame they were so terribly managed… Do I have any tips on managing my own mental health? Not really, ha! I’m a wounded healer as many of us are. It’s easier for me to help people than it is myself. But with all seriousness, I think what helps me get through the night is having a good, and wide support system. Surrounding myself with people who aren’t going to always agree with me leads to stronger friendships because I know they aren’t going to just tell me what I want to hear. Ryan Tompkins is the best at this. He tells me how it is, no matter how shitty it might be to hear, and no matter how badly it might hurt. And even though I rarely see him these days, I know he’ll be there if I reach out. And I love him for that. Besides, life is hard enough as it is.

What do you have coming up?  List anything you'd like to plug. 

Honestly man, as far as poetry goes, I’m taking a much needed break from publishing books. Currently I’m focusing on editing poems I’ve written over the last few years. I’m sitting on top of a 70 poem manuscript which I wrote from winter ’22 to spring ’23. I’m sitting on top of 168 haikus and 193 unpublished and uncollected poems… I’d like to get those as tight as possible before sending them out for possible publication, ya know? As far as music goes, Permanent Tension is playing “New Jersey vs. Valhalla” on June 8^th, 2024 so that should be cool. I provided vocals to a 5 song ep with Tom Schlatter but he’s crazy busy with Saetia and Hundreds of AU and everything else he does so I haven’t followed up with him about it. So really who the fuck knows, man. I’m just very thankful for all the opportunities I’ve had in these 34 years I’ve been alive. Each morning I wake up and ask myself, Tohm, has the edge gone dull? And I tell myself, no, I’m bringing it down with this hammer I got, this is my burning fight. Anyway, I think we should end here. Thanks again, Paul.

Same.

 

Links:

Instagram: @flexyourhead // @betweenshadowspress

Website:  https://tohmbakelaspoetry.wordpress.com/

Buy: https://betweenshadowspress.bigcartel.com/

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11. LIGHTbEING: round

 

I'm not cool or hip, but in the early 2010s, I hung out with a lot of people that were and probably still are. Each weekend we crossed the pond into NYC to Brooklyn where we danced, sang, and some even tripped 'til way past my bedtime now.  Andy Spratt often made these treks with me and he's emerged into the light with his new project, LIGHTBEING, who would have fit right in. Actually, they would have stood out, had they been a band, but they weren't.  They are now though, and they stand out.   This EP's got something special going on: the word play, the dancyness, the guitar-work and the tight rhythm section all work perfectly together. Vocals and guitar drive these songs and occupy the most space but they don't compete.  Each little melodic guitar run gets it's turn  to be in the light while the vocal delivery offers a chill/melodic delivery with clever lyrics.  I'm definitely bobbing my head and find myself singing the songs when they aren't on.  Joseph Carey sounds somewhere between BECK and MARK SANDMAN of MORPHINE but offers a more rhythmic pattern-work...super 90s.  Andy played the long game with some of these riffs, informing me that some were born as early as the year 2000.  Some real Y2K shit.  I'd say more, but you've probably "had enough of too much," with this earthquake and all.  Don't take my word for it though, hear it for yourself HERE or search LIGHTBEING on Spotify and look for the cover. Do some work, dammit. 

FUN AND CRAZY AS YOU CAN IMAGINE (inerview: Anthony Wille of FOLLY)

What can I say about FOLLY that I haven't already said.  You know them. If you don't, get on that!  In short, they are a big part of what got me playing music in the first place.  Multi-instrumentalist, and avid lover of punk rock and all types of music, Anthony Wille plays drums in FOLLY.  His mark on the band hit hard with the 3-song demo that came out just before Insanity Later.  Anthony took the band to another level and he was nice enough to answer some questions.

Photo: Kelsey Ayres.

First of all, thanks for taking the time to do this.  Speaking of that demo, what version of "Broken" do you like best?  The demo version, or the one on Resist Convenience?

Of course, thanks for taking the time to ask! That’s a fun question.  I like both versions for their own reasons, but if I had to pick one I’d go with the demo. It’s a little more raw and energetic, I think.  We didn’t use a click track.  Some parts are way slower & some parts are way faster, which I like.  We played that song live for a long time before recording it for Resist, so using one BPM took some getting used to the second time around.  But, that also allowed us to work in some ideas that evolved from playing it out. So there are aspects of both that I like, but overall, I’d go demo. 

Can you explain your transition from YALE HOCKEY to FOLLY?  Was there anything in between?

I was basically stolen. You know, Agim actually played guitar for a Yale Hockey show! Maybe at the Sussex Elks Lodge?

The transition happened pretty fast, and there wasn’t anything in between. 2001, Folly had just recorded For My Friends with Kurt Rohl on drums and were looking to start touring and do more generally, but Kurt was getting into some pretty high-level skeet shooting (or golf, or possibly both) and wanted to focus on that instead. I’m not sure who was first, but I remember both Agim and Arben independently asking me if I’d want to play drums.  Agim brought it up in our gym class, my junior / his senior year, in our gym clothes, by the soda machine. Arben asked at a Sussex Elks Lodge show. Maybe the one where Folly/Yale Hockey/One Man Short (Geoff’s other awesome punk band) went song for song for a set. 

We jammed for the first time at Geoff’s house in Branchville. I remember playing everything way too fast, which is something I still do a lot.  My first show was the For My Friends release with The Pietasters, either Krome or Birch Hill.  Then a show in Brick, then maybe one or two more before the band went on its first tour down to Florida with Face First. I was 16. Yale Hockey pretty much ended after that. I do remember a sweet send off, all the Yale Hockey guys throwing rocks at my bedroom window to wish me luck before I left for tour.  And Dom, good friend and Yale Hockey guitarist, was a staple in the van for many years after.    

I didn't know that about Agim, but I really loved that YALE HOCKEY demo.  What was it like being on tour at 16?

Fun and crazy, as you can imagine.  On that tour I bought a fake ID from an IHOP waiter in Orlando, so I wasn’t 16 for long.  I think I paid $10, which was honestly most of my budget.  The picture looked nothing like me, but it never failed.  $$ well spent.  

What do you know about "Blue Tape?"

Painting essentials.  Great for trim work.  Also the name of my first band with Mike (control, earth stood still, longlife, slayter)! I think. It may have been Kerplunk first. But it was one of the early band names. 5th grade roughly. We had a lot of album art sketched in our notebooks where school notes should have been.  I think the name holds up, actually.   

Besides drums, what is your favorite instrument to play?

I don’t know if I can pick one, so I’ll pick two, neither of which I can play all that well. But I like to dabble in the variety. 

Trumpet is one. I was 32 or 33 when I first started playing. Jon, Agim, and I would go on what we called "jazz odysseys" with drums, bass, and some horns that Agim rented.  Usually noisy and chaotic, always so fun.  Over time I wanted to challenge myself to get better, and really had to practice at it.  It’s a very demanding instrument. Your air flow and lips and fingers and brain all have to be in sync.  I also had to learn how to read music to play it.  So it’s very satisfying that now I can pick one up and play a tune, or learn something new.  

Piano is also up there, but more so because of the process than actually having the ability to play it well.  It's meditative for me. It focuses me in and quiets a lot of noise in my head.  I’ll usually pick a classical piece that is approachable, and then repeatedly practice measure by measure, after dinner or whenever.  It’s never great at first, but after a few days of playing a part over and over it starts coming together.  The muscle memory kicks in and my fingers just go. I love that feeling and find that process to be so rewarding.

Based on conversations in the past, I know you aren't too fond of writing lyrics, though songs I've heard with you on vocals are great (HOOVER FLAGS).  What is it about lyric writing that you don't like?  Does expressing yourself through the music do it for you?  

Ha thanks!  Agim and I both wrote lyrics for Hoover Flags.  The songs were often a mish-mash lyrically.  We were more concerned with the actual sound of the words and how they fit with the music and melody than the substance.  But to your question, I’m not exactly sure what it is that I don’t like about writing lyrics.  I always had fun writing essays or thesis papers, but lyrics are different and I just don’t like what I write.  Feels uncomfortable and forced to me.  I hope I’d be better at it now, but I’d much rather get it out through drums or whatever else.  Jon actually wrote my favorite Hoover Flags lyrics. “You bite your tongue, your tongue bites you too. Just say it already, dude!” Apt!

On the topic of lyrics, Jon's lyrics are always super sharp, clever and anthemic.  What line do you connect with the most in a FOLLY song?

Nice segue.  I really love Jon’s lyrics — his concepts, wordplay, style, always super sharp and clever as you mention. I feel very fortunate and appreciative to have such a talented writer front our band.  One of my favorite parts about the writing process has always been (and continues to be) reading and thinking about what he comes up with.  In terms of lines I really connect with, there’s one line from piano player that’s been kind of a maxim — “confidence in my actions with a positive regard for others.”  Simple and powerful sentiment, and generally a great way to go about living.  I also love the line “brevity is the brother of brilliance” from Bonfire. I’ll say no more. 

HAHA, Well done.  A+.  FOLLY is on its second life and bigger and stronger than ever.  How did it feel to hold "Insanity Later" in your hands for the first time and then listen to it?  Was it just as magical when you got the "Resist Convenience" pressings?

Putting out a vinyl was always a bucket list thing for us, so it was pretty surreal to actually make it happen. We thought Insanity Later might be the first and last chance to get something pressed and wanted to do it up — reimagined artwork, collage insert, all that.  It was a lot of work, a lot of back and forth, so to see it come to life and physically hold it 15 years after it was first released was incredibly special.  So was listening to it (although I have a shitty record player that plays too fast and high pitched. Magical nonetheless).  We really didn’t think that we’d ever get to press Resist Convenience as well, and are collectively so grateful to Bad Time Records for giving us that chance.  It was re-mastered for vinyl by Alan Douches at West West Side, with new artwork by Justin Gray.  I actually held it for the first time just a few weeks ago, and yes, just as magical! 

You guys traveled down the play FEST this year.  I went to fest twice and feel like I actually got the full experience this time.  Can you make a list of the top 3 sets you saw this year at fest and why?  I'd say mine were FOLLY, TSUNAMI BOMB, & GEL from above, where it was safe. 

Awesome three.  I have video evidence of you in the pit for our set. Slow motion too, it looks really cool.  Sorry if this is just a love fest, but Hundreds of AU was definitely in my top.  You were a must see, and the set was so good.  So many good bands, this is hard…Vantana Row was wild, even though I only saw a few minutes of them.  They weren’t a listed band or anything, some of us were just walking to a different venue, through a sea of half-naked college party kids and I looked over and was like holy shit. I know them and love some songs.  Singer was going off on top of the van, screaming about big pussies or something, and the drummer was smashing away inside the van to a strobe light.  Some people looked scared, it was fucking great. An experience for sure. And for the third, this is a total copout, but I just parked myself at the High Dive stage all day on Sunday and had the best time.  I loved watching Flying Raccoon Suit, and Hans Gruber and the Diehards were so fucking good. Thirsty Guys, Best of the Worst, Against All Authority Devo set.  I can probably just name everyone. That day was so fun. 

Did your day jobs dictate what you did/do with FOLLY or did folly dictate your day jobs?

I can’t speak for everyone, but surely there are influences both ways. Jon and Geoff seem the most direct.  Geoff went to school for sound engineering and works in the biz, and Jon is an English teacher!  My job doesn’t totally relate, but I can largely attribute how I do my job and whatever success I’ve had to being in a band and touring with my friends.  I’ve mostly worked in tech startups. Change is the only constant. People, processes, companies getting bought, sold, folding — all that.  I think having the experiences we did/do really shapes how I approach things at work. The values I take with me, being supportive and collaborative, being able to roll with it, figuring it out as you go, connecting with people from all walks, building relationships, having fun.  The technical skills are important, but I feel like it’s all of those “softer” things cultivated through Folly that have helped me the most in my career. 

I know you also like to do art besides music.  LESSER MINDS made one of your drawings into a shirt. Can you take a minute to draw us a picture or share one you've drawn?

Very flattered and honored that Lesser Minds used that drawing! It was just a little Sunday sketch.  (Do you still have any of those shirts, actually?) I like to doodle and dabble. Art is maybe a strong word.  Here is a quick drawing of Pepper for you. I love Pepper.

I love that so much. I'll check with Brian on the shirts, I think they sold out.  FOLLY got busy again in the last few years.  What's next for FOLLY?  Can we expect new music?  

Slowly but surely writing and practicing new songs — some written in the last month, some written over 10 years ago.  It might take a little while, but definitely be on the lookout for new music.

FOLLY BANDCAMP (non spotify tracks)

Thank you so much! Really excited for everything you have coming up.  We were toying with the idea of calling on you (pun intended) to produce some new music with us.  I won't say which band. No obligations.  

If you can score tickets, check FOLLY out at one of their two shows coming up with the mighty, PAULSON. 

WHEN THE JOKE GOES TOO FAR BUT SOUNDS SO GOOD (interview: Dan Boyle)

You’re multitalented. I’ve seen you absolutely kill it on vocals across many genres from the extreme depths of metal to melodic pop punk. Is your process the same for each genre or different and do they influence one another?

Thank you! I’ve always tried to keep my musical interests diverse. I think that having a well-rounded set of influences helps me adapt to whatever genre I’m writing for at the time. It’s subconscious most of the time. I often fail to realize the things that influenced certain parts I write until after it’s recorded. I’ll be listening to music and hear the thing that initially influenced me and just be like “that’s where I got that idea from!”  If something sounds familiar while I’m writing it, I’ll google the lyrics I wrote to make sure I didn’t rip them off someone else. The process is always a little bit different each time but at the core it’s generally the same. I like to write alone. Sometimes when the band and I are working on a song together, I’ll start humming out a melody or a pattern, but the bulk of the lyrics get done when I’m away from everyone else. I like to have a melody in mind and then I’ll make the lyrics fit to it rather than trying to cram lyrics into a song. The hard part is finding a balance between what I think are two equally crucial elements, making the melody or pattern add to the song and actually making the lyrics coherent and meaningful. It would be easy to write nonsense that sounds good and equally simple to write well-thought-out lyrics that don’t necessarily fit with a song. It’s a tight rope act to get both things just right.

I totally get that.  Each word has to be powerful and not distract from the message of the song.  No room for filler. I get turned off when I read lyrics that are obviously just to hold place, or lyrics that are so obscure it just comes off as trying too hard. Do you play instruments too? 

Yes, I play guitar as well. I actually started playing and writing music on guitar. I didn’t learn to scream or sing until it was clear that I wasn’t particularly good at guitar. I was jamming with some friends, and I just wasn’t working out on guitar for how technical that band was becoming. Our friend, Pat, who is an incredible guitarist, was sitting in on all of these practices. One day, he picked up a guitar and started messing around while a few of us went to grab food. By the time I came back, I was informed that Pat was the new guitarist. I didn’t take it too hard because I knew that he was much more skilled and dedicated to playing than I was. That band fizzled out quickly and me and the members of that band decided to start a joke band called MISSINGNO where I decided that if I wanted to continue to play music, I’d have to find another way to stick around. So, I taught myself to scream in the car while driving to and from college every day and I’ve been doing it, as well as singing (which I’m still definitely learning lol) for about 14 years now. I still play guitar but mostly acoustic stuff. Hopefully I’ll release some of it one day.

I don't think a lot of people could put their ego aside, like you did in that guitar situation.  It's admirable.  Do you have projects other than SIPHONED SHIT, going on now? 

Currently I’m playing with SIPHONED SHIT but I also play in a metal band called FALLING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE EARTH and a post-punk/pop-punk project next called SANDCAP.

Awesome. I’m stoked to hear the SANDCAP project. You taught yourself well. Have you noticed a change in the way you approach lyrics for different bands you’re in? Like does SIPHONED SHIT cover different themes than FALLING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE EARTH? If you’re comfortable sharing, maybe tell more of where the influence came from lyrically for specific songs from each. 

SIPHONED SHIT is like a half comedy, half serious band. The lyrics are mostly ridiculous. Like, most of the songs feature references to chugging beer or funneling human excrement. We even have a song about Papa John’s disturbing tell-all TV interview meltdown. We take the music seriously but the whole band is just ludicrous fun. We definitely take influences from bands like MUNICIPAL WASTE, SUICIDAL TENDENCIES and other thrash bands that walk the line between fun, sometimes goofy delivery and ripping thrash metal. 

Honestly, I feel like there's a good place for music and lyrical content that doesn't take itself too seriously...an escape.  It's like watching a horror movie, or a dark comedy.  It helps you forget about the real horrors of the world for the time you engage with it.  

FALLING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE EARTH definitely has more serious undertones as far as lyrics are concerned. The lyrics range from politics to struggles with depression and mental health. I try to take a serious approach to writing those songs. It allows me to vent. I pull influence from a lot of hardcore as well as metal bands with FTTCOTE. I’ve always been a fan of the politically motivated, sometimes emotional lyrical content of hardcore music. Bands like MINOR THREAT, HAVE HEART, BLACK FLAG, VERSE…etc have all influenced me in a major way, even if it’s not overly apparent because we play a different genre of music. As for metal, I’ve always leaned towards more technical stuff. Delivery wise I’ve definitely pulled from bands like BETWEEN THE BURIED AND ME, And HELL FOLLOWED WITH, JOB FOR a COWBOY, and THE FACELESS to name a few.

Tell me a little more about SIPHONED SHIT since you have a show coming up.  Where did the name come from? What challenges do you face with a name like that?

The name SIPHONED SHIT came from a stupid running joke within our friend group. Eventually that joke turned into “that would be a rad thrash metal band name.” We didn’t plan on taking the band too seriously, so we figured we should use it. As for struggles because of the name, we don’t try to play out too much or do anything too seriously so if it’s been a problem, who cares? This band is about getting together with friends and partying and if someone takes offense to the name, they aren’t invited to the party. We have rarely played at a serious music venue with this band. We’ve played in living rooms, garages, sheds, thrift stores, basements and the occasional self-booked bar show at local hangouts. I imagine that having a name like SIPHONED SHIT would hinder us if we were talking to labels or something but I don’t imagine that’s in the cards for us. This band is just for fun.

It’s awesome you have both the fun and serious outlets. As someone who plays in multiple bands myself, I understand that each band may serve a different purpose or outlet. I could see you killing in a band similar to VERSE or HAVE HEART. It’s rad to hear you pull from there even though it’s not that style. 

I think we are around the same age.  I find certain aspects of putting yourself out there get more difficult but other aspects like decent recordings come easier because we have full-time jobs now and can afford it and shit.  Do you agree? What keeps you doing it as you get older?

As I get older, I find myself at a weird crossroads. I love to play but I also have other responsibilities that’s take priority over it. I have a wife and a 3-year-old at home and I own a small business (shout out Virile Barber & Shop Morristown!). I spent a few years touring and playing every weekend when we weren’t on the road and those were some of the best times of my life. But eventually, if the lifestyle can’t sustain itself, it’s tough to keep that up. I had other goals as well, like starting a family, and once I jumped into that I realized that raising a kid is the most important thing I’ve ever done and will ever do. I wouldn’t hold a steady job because I was really trying to do music and I would quit for tours or weekends; I was pretty fearful of ever really settling down because I thought it would be the end of that dream. It took a long time to realize that music doesn’t have to be living in a van and eating McDonald’s (RIP dollar menu) every night. Like I said, they were some of the best times of my life and I wouldn’t trade those memories for anything but music, at the heart of it, can be played anywhere, with anyone, for anyone. If I’m just playing guitar in my basement, I’m still making music. If I’m just releasing a few songs a year and playing a show here or there, I’m still making music. I stopped looking at it as a potential career and I started to remember why I got into it in the first place, it’s because I love music. It’s easier now with a full-time job to pay for musical endeavors but my time is limited so I don’t do nearly as much. But I’m ok with that. I’ll never stop making music. Even when I’m 80, sitting in my living room strumming a guitar, I’m still technically making music…and that will be good enough for me.

I love that response. I can definitely relate to the idea of never stopping, sometimes I feel like a break would be the best thing I can do, but I just don't have it in me to stop. It's definitely easier to make the music with home studios and stuff now, but there's something to be said for being in a full studio environment far from home that just gets something out of you.   Do you have favorite studios that you've worked with?   

We always had a great connection with Kevin Kumetz when he was at Barbershop studio in Lake Hopatcong, NJ. He recorded all of the stuff we did with SIRENS back in the day, as well as the DOUBLE OVERTIME album. He’s a really great guy and has an excellent ear which really helps when putting together an album. Plus, Barbershop Studio is pretty much the best location for a studio of all time. Right on the lake, it’s in a beautiful old church with an Italian restaurant attached to the bottom of it. The rooms there were top tier and it helped to be able to hang out on the deck overlooking the lake while waiting for people to record their parts. We have also worked with Kevin Antreassian at Backroom Studio in Rockaway, NJ and actually just played a show there last year. We went in to mix the FALLING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE EARTH EP in 2015 and he was very hands on and had great suggestions while being receptive to our input which helped that album sound awesome. He’s a very solid dude and Backroom is a great facility. 

I know that spot! I went there for a session as an observer once and was in awe of he stained glass.  Does your kid show any gravitation towards music?  

My daughter absolutely loves music, and it makes me so happy. When we are in the car, she only wants to listen to music, no podcasts, no radio (I’m a sports radio junkie), only music. It doesn’t even matter the genre, she vibes with all of it and hasn’t really objected to anything I’ve put on yet. I feel very lucky, she’s a happy kid, always smiling, singing and dancing…which gets me singing and dancing with her all the time. 

That's so awesome! Okay, last question. You brought up touring.  Do you have any stories that stick out that you want to share?  Also, what was your go-to McDonald's dollar menu tour meal?

As far as tour is concerned, we had a blast. Looking back, it was pretty much living in a van with four of my closest friends. Definitely a special time in my life that I’ll always look back on fondly. It creates a bond that won’t ever be broken. Those guys are my brothers. We would fight, it was dirty in the van, we didn’t always have the ideal sleeping situation, it definitely wasn’t glamorous, but we always got through it and became better friends from it. Once in Connecticut, we stopped in a Walmart parking lot to sleep for the night before heading up to New Hampshire and we were kind of at each other’s throats. We had only been out for a night or two but our bassist and merch guy were getting chippy with each other the whole time. Eventually things came to a head and they started fighting, things ended up on the ground and the manager of the Walmart came walking around the van in time to see someone get kicked in the head. He freaked out (understandably so) and told us to get out of there. We all jumped in the van and left and the two guys who were fighting ended up sitting next to each other in the scramble to leave and ended up talking things out on the ride to the next show. The only way to describe it is brotherhood. You can fight and then make up a second later and it’s water under the bridge. It’s a special thing. 

For anyone reading, I believe you can legally stay overnight in any WalMart parking lot.  Unless, you wanna "fist fight in the parking lot" that is.

Anything else you want to plug?

I'm releasing a song called “Never the Same” with a new project called SANDCAP on April 12 on all streaming platforms. It’s a two-person project I’m doing with my longtime friend and bandmate Aristotle. He wrote and recorded all the music; I wrote and recorded all the vocals. It’s kind of a departure from what we have done in the past. Very emotionally driven, super personal lyrics. Musically we are kind of branching out and trying some different stuff and I hope people connect with it. 

We also have a show with SIPHONED SHIT on April 13 at The Lakeshore Inn in Hewitt, NJ. We do a show there almost annually at this point and it’s been a lot of fun in the past. It’s free and the lineup is stacked. You might recognize CONTROL and THIEV ;). It’s our hometown so it’s bound to be a reunion. I’m excited to see a bunch of people that I don’t see nearly enough anymore. 

We are also about to book some studio time for later in the year to record a full length with FALLING THROUGH THE CENTER OF THE EARTH. We have been writing this album for almost ten years now and I’m excited to finally record and share it with everyone. 

SIPHONED SHIT SPOTIFY